Roma locuta; causa finita est. (Rome has spoken; the case is closed.)

Roma locuta; causa finita est.  (Rome has spoken; the case is closed.)

I originally posted this on Catholic Answers Forum (forums.catholic.com), and I re-posted it here on the occassion of Querida Amazonia's publication:

I gladly submit with my whole heart all my positions to Holy Mother Church for judgment not just on matters of faith and morals but in her discipline, am willing to be corrected in any errant theology and canons apart from her teachings contained herein, and i happily retract publicly that which the Church considers unorthodox if I have made them here, as is expected of any Catholic.  I profess the faith of the Church in the Nicene Creed that we profess at Holy Mass.

As Vatican II taught in Presbyteriorum Ordinis, no. 16, celibacy is "not demanded of the priesthood by its nature, as is clear from the practice of the primitive Church" but nevertheless maintain celibacy as the 'norm' but grant dispensations on a case by case basis (as was done with Pius XII, Paul VI, JP2, and B16).

Holy Spirit not at work in that right now, but what will we do for those deprived of Eucharist?: U.S. Bishop Wester of Santa Fe (USA) & U.S. Bishop Solis of Salt Lake City (USA) Quoting Francis (CNN)

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/world/pope-married-priests-amazon/index.html (12 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt: 

Archbishop John Wester of Santa Fe, New Mexico spoke to Francis in a private meeting together with other US bishops about the document just a few days before its publication. He told Catholic News Service that Francis' own explanation for why he wasn't backing the bolder proposals was that the Pope discerned that it wasn't the moment for change.

"I don't even think at this point that it's something we're going to move on because I haven't sensed that the Holy Spirit is at work in that right now," Wester quotes the Pope as saying.

Bishop Oscar A. Solis of Salt Lake City, who also participated in the private meeting, told CNS that his impression was that Francis was leaving the door open for future decisions.

"He said he didn't actually believe in the ordination of married men, but what are you going to do with all those people who are deprived of the Eucharist?" Solis claimed the Pope said.

Accepto: Francis Ducks Debates Over Married Priests (John Allen of Crux News)

Source: https://cruxnow.com/amazon-synod/2020/02/pope-ducks-debates-over-married-priests-women-deacons-in-amazon-doc/ (12 Feb. 2020)

Blessed be God!

Eve of Querida Amazonia: Fiat Voluntas Tuua

Your will be done, Lord.

Fr. Longenecker's "Balanced Study" on Celibacy: Thank you, jack63, from Catholic Answers Forum (CAF - https://forums.catholic.com/)!

Thank you to jack63 from Catholic Answers Forum for sending this to me!

Source: https://dwightlongenecker.com/a-married-priest-on-celibacy/#comments (10 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt:

What about married priests? Well, we too are called to that same configuration with Christ, but we must be open to God accomplishing this through our marriage instead of through celibacy.

Norm v. Dispensation: Final Reflections Before Feb 12 (Comment Left on Catholic Answers Forum)

Source: https://forums.catholic.com/t/married-priesthood-maintain-celibacy-as-the-norm-but-allow-dispensations-on-a-case-by-case-basis/590653 (10 Feb. 2020)

Married Priesthood: Maintain celibacy as the ‘norm’ but allow dispensations on a case by case basis 

Liturgy and Sacraments

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MarriedRCPriesthood

1m

My platform is this: We should maintain celibacy as the ‘norm’ in the Latin rite but allow dispensations on a case by case basis. This is consistent with the Magisterium, without abolishing celibacy.

In 1952, Pope Pius XII began dispensations of married men to the Latin rite priesthood before Vatican II in Germany. This was the first of 4 other married Latin rite priests that were also ordained in Germany within 12 years.

Dispensations continued under Paul VI who allowed the first married Roman Catholic priest to be ordained in the USA: Fr. Beck.

John Paul II then dispensed married men and allowed them to be ordained to the Roman rite priesthood through the Pastoral Provision.

Benedict XVI allowed married Latin rite Catholic priests through the Ordinariate. (At the time of this writing, Francis is examining the question for married deacons in the Amazon.)

None of these 20th Century Popes asked these men to remain continent when dispensing them from the celibacy canon. This is true for married Latin rite permanent deacons, too.

While celibacy and continence can be traced to the Twelve Apostles, ‘mandatory’ celibacy and ‘mandatory’ continence cannot be traced to the time of the Twelve Apostles. The key word is ‘mandatory’ or ‘compulsory’.

Earliest evidence points to the LOCAL Elvira Synod of AD 305 mandating continence. But this is a local council from Spain, not a UNIVERSAL mandate which came later. No earlier evidence exists for mandated celibacy or mandated continence. Even ‘conservative’ scholars admit that they cannot find evidence for ‘mandated’ celibacy before AD 305.

Finally, this is not a liberal issue, and it is not a conservative issue. It is a Catholic issue. Many conservatives are for a married Latin rite priesthood. It is not an intrinsic evil.

Thank you, Catholic Answers. I believe this position is consistent with what you have publicly taught.

The bottom line is that the Church has the authority to bind and loosen on the married priest issue. The Church taketh away, but the Church also giveth.

Story of Fr Kovch: Catholic Answers Discussion Board

Source: https://forums.catholic.com/t/patron-saint-of-married-priests/224507/8 (10 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt:

Alexander_Roman

Jan '11

Blessed Father Emilian Kovch, beatified by Pope John Paul II in Ukraine, is fast becoming the Eastern patron of married priests.

He had six children and yet hid many Jewish children in his barn and elsewhere on his farm property.

He baptized Jews escaping the Nazi terror, at great risk to his life. He was interrogated by the Gestapo and here I quote, from memory, a portion of the interrogation:

Gestapo: Didn’t you know it is against the law to baptize Jews?

Fr. Kovch: I didn’t know anything.

Gestapo: Do you know it now?

Fr. Kovch: Yes.

Gestapo: Will you continue to baptize Jews?

Fr. Kovch: Of course . . .

Fr. Kovch was sent to a death camp and wrote this to his wife in a letter: “My dear, do not cry or be upset. God has put me here in this place of death and terror. Yesterday, 50 men were executed. Can you imagine? I was able to be with them in their last hours to bring them the consolation of God and Christ. Do not weep, I am here in fulfillment of God’s Will!”

Fr. Kovch was gassed and burned himself later. He was beatified as a martyr by soon to be Blessed Pope John Paul II.

Fr. Kovch’s daughter is a member of my parish which has a stained glass window of Blessed Fr. Emilian Kovch. She is often seen near it, praying to her father.

As for the comment that a married priest needs all the help he can get - he DOES get it from his wife and family.

He has the kind of support a celibate priest will never have.

Alex

Married Priesthood is a Restoration Not an Innovation: Commentary Conversation

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cardinal-center-popes-storm-doubles-celibacy-68530582 (10 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt:

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Married Roman Catholic Priesth6 days ago

Fr. Dwight Longenecker, a married Roman Catholic priesthood dispensed from celibacy when he converted to Catholicism, said that the perceived tension between Benedict and Francis is media gossip. More importantly, I do want to add that celibacy should be the 'norm' for the Latin rite (Roman Catholic instead of Eastern Catholic Churches) but allow dispensations on a case by case basis. Thank you for the space.

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  PeterDamian  Married Roman Catholic Priesth5 days ago

  "A married Roman Catholic priesthood"? English please? Dispensations have been used to undermine celibacy in the Latin Rite since the early 1950s, and it is being pushed for in the amazon by Liberation theologians who want to turn the towards Paganism not Pagans towards the Church.

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    Married Roman Catholic Priesth  PeterDamian4 days ago

    You cannot deny the authority of Pope Pius XII who has the keys of Peter to dispense from canonical requirements. You should see the validity of this argument and how I am using a pre-Vatican II authority to prove my case. Are you a sedevacantist (no Pope on the Chair of Peter)? The Church taketh away, but the Church also giveth.

    For your second part of your comment, I agree with you that the Church has been infiltrated, but we part company in that the married priesthood is not an intrinsic evil like those other evils (Pachamama, the marxists infiltration of the hierarchy, HC for those in objective mortal sin, etc.). Do not conflate the married priesthood with those evils. There are many holy married priests.

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      PeterDamian  Married Roman Catholic Priesth4 days ago

      Popes can make flawed decisions in matters of discipline and when making exceptions to apostolic discipline for the forst time in more than 1900 years that is dubious to say the least.
      I am not a Sedevacantist, (though I have looked into the Siri thesis and have legitimate doubts regarding the conclave of 1958, as well as regarding the conclave of 2013 with the Podesta emails and so on raising doubt).
      Pope Pius XII was a valid pope but Our Lady of Fatima indicated that the pope could fail in his mission to consecrate Russia which would result in the spread of the errors of Russia, this happened under Pope Pius XII and he allowed himself to be eventually swayed by FDR in tacitly condoning/approving aid to the Soviet Union going against the stance of Pope Pius XI.
      Pope Pius XI, Pope Pius IX, Pope Saint Sergius, Saint Pope Leo IX and Pope Gregory VII all excluded exceptions. I obviously trust their judgement.
      Married priesthood has nonetheless been pushed by Novationists, Nestorians, Photius, Protestants, Freemasons, the French Revolutionairies and Marxists. It is one of the most unifying elements of schismatics and heretics.
      The early church fathers would view a lack of perpetual continence as incompatible with being a holy priest. I do not question their character or intentions, but living in obedience to apostolic tradition requires them to be completely abstinent. Married saints and priests were so for decades so I do not see any problem.

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        Married Roman Catholic Priesth  PeterDamiana few seconds ago

        While evidence of celibacy and continence can be traced to the Twelve Apostles (apostolic discipline), evidence of 'mandatory' celibacy and 'mandatory' continence cannot be traced to the Twelve Apostles (it is not 'mandated' apostolic discipline). The key word is 'mandated'. Concerning holiness of a married priest, there are canonized married priest saints that have had kids after ordination like St. Gregory the Elder. There were 4 new married priests martyrs canonized about a decade ago. The Church Fathers were not unanimous on the married priest issue, and some of them like St. Hilary of Pointier, St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. Paulinus were married clergy. You theologically shoot yourself in the foot when you cite the Church Fathers and the Elvira Synod (which has the same weight as the Amazon Synod). Ordinariate priests were not expected to be continent. Married priesthood is not an innovation but a restoration of how things were done by the first Christians the first 300 years of the Catholic Church. The Church has the authority to change in matters of discipline which means it is ratified in Heaven, as Christ himself said in Mt. 16. Your theological foundation is not correct. The Church taketh away, but the Church also giveth.

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Cardinal Hummes Chaired Drafting Team for Amazon Synod Document: Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna

Source: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/leaked-amazon-synod-text-on-priestly-ordination-of-married-men-a-draft-56220 (9 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt:

Four days before the final document was approved, Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna indicated that it was to be written principally by a team chaired by Cardinal Hummes.

Amazonian Exception Projected to Be Region-Based But No Wider Expansion: EWTN Vatican News Analyst Andrea Galiarducci

https://youtu.be/MzDZdN7h-pc (9 Feb. 2020)

5 "various outcomes are possible" for priestly celibacy in 'Querida Amazonia' on Wed., Feb. 12, 2020: Ed Pentin (EWTN)

Source: https://m.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/what-will-the-popes-post-amazon-synod-document-say-about-priestly-celibacy (8 Feb. 2020)

My commentary: This is one of the best analyses I have seen to date.  #2 and/or #3 are my projections.  Here's what I think about Ed Pentin's list of possibilities.

1 - Not likely. Cat out of the bag.

2 - #2 is my first projection of what will happen.  Maintain celibacy as the norm but expand dispensation exceptions to Amazon region.

3 - #3 is the second most likely possibility, but if this did happen for other world bishops to consider, it would happen as the next step or concurrent with #2 above.

4 - Francis won't abolish celibacy, but it is more correct for Pentin to say that Francis will 'continue the practice of his predecessors' beginning with Pius XII to dispense married men to the Latin rite priesthood.  Francis would be expanding what his predecessors have done to the Amazon region and even other areas.

5 - Possible but not likely.

Excerpt (from Ed Pentin)

"1. The first could be that the post-synodal apostolic exhortation indeed contains no reference to viri probati, and so the document presents no danger to the mandatory celibacy rule."

"2. The second possibility is that the document firmly reasserts the Church’s discipline and so appears to adhere to orthodoxy, but allows an exception for the Amazon synod proposal."

"3.A third scenario is that the document contains no reference to viri probati and the celibacy rule would appear to have survived intact. But in reality, rather than being completely shelved, the matter would either be transferred to the new constitution for the Roman Curia and, in turn, bishops’ conferences."

"4. A fourth hypothesis is that the Pope says the exhortation must be read in light of the final document, allowing him to make no reference himself to the issue of viri probati and so at least avoid the accusation that he, himself, caused the abolition of priestly celibacy."

"5.A fifth possibility is that no reference is made to viri probati and a change to the priestly celibacy rule is postponed. It would then be dealt with either in a “study commission” on the matter, or in light of the next Synod of Bishops which will probably be on synodality."

Holy See Press Office: "Querida Amazonia" will be presented on Wed., Feb. 12, 2020, 1pm (Rome Time)

Source: https://zenit.org/articles/popes-post-synodal-exhortation-on-the-amazon-to-be-presented-next-week/ (8 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt: Pope Francis’ post-synodal Apostolic Exhortation on the Amazon will be presented next week.

In a statement from the Holy See Press Office today, journalists were informed that Wednesday, Feb. 12, 2020 , at 1 pm , there will be the presentation of the document, titled: “Querida Amazonia (‘Dear Amazon’),” in the Holy See Press Office.

Vatican Press Conference for Feb. 12, 2020, Set; Leaked excerpt said Pope approved viri probati: Italian Vatican journalist Roberto de Mattei

Source: https://osvnews.com/2020/02/07/pope-francis-exhortation-on-the-amazon-synod-to-be-released-feb-12/ (8 Feb 2020)

Excerpt:

 Italian Vatican journalist Roberto de Mattei reported last week that he had obtained a leaked excerpt of the exhortation where the pope was said to approve of ordaining the viri probati (“esteemed men of virtue”) to the priesthood.

CNA: The text provided by de Mattei is substantially identical to article 111 of the final document of the Amazon synod, which calls for the ordination of married men as priests.

Source: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/leaked-amazon-synod-text-on-priestly-ordination-of-married-men-a-draft-56220 (8 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt:

“What is now circulating is one draft, which was distributed for review and comment as the final text is developed,” a source in the Dicastery for Communication told CNA Jan. 31.

The text provided by de Mattei is substantially identical to article 111 of the final document of the Amazon synod, which calls for the ordination of married men as priests.

That article of the final document proposes “that criteria and dispositions be established by the competent authority, within the framework of Lumen Gentium 26, to ordain as priests suitable and respected men of the community … who have had a fruitful permanent diaconate and receive an adequate formation for the priesthood, in order to sustain the life of the Christian community through the preaching of the Word and the celebration of the Sacraments in the most remote areas of the Amazon region.”

According to de Mattei, the text he published came to him “from several bishops” who had received a portion of the forthcoming apostolic exhortation.

Fuller Context of St. Bridget Quote: Married Christian Priests who lived in 'Carnal Marriage' were 'still friends of God'

Source: https://onepeterfive.com/a-father-to-his-flock-in-defense-of-priestly-celibacy/ (6 Feb. 2020)

This comment was in response to the so-called St. Bridget quote by Peter James:

Peter James21 days ago edited

There are a couple of problems with the “prophecy”of St. Bridget:

First, personal prophecies and visions are just that Personal. We are not bound to believe them. And many times they are inaccurate.

Second, The entire prophecy is not included in your article. Before it gets into the incredible punishment due the pope there are several paragraphs. One of them read as such:

“…For after he instituted in the world this new sacrament of the Eucharist and ascended into heaven, the ancient law was then still kept: namely, that Christian priests lived in CARNAL matrimony. And, nonetheless, many of them were still friends of God because they believed with simple purity that this was pleasing to God: namely, that Christian priests should have wives and live in wedlock just as, in the ancient times of the Jews, this had pleased him in the case of Jewish priests. And so, this was the observance of Christian priests for many years.

And it goes on and on and on and on.

Basically, the vision is implying belief that in the ancient Church, priestly marriage was common and accepted, but then later was revoked under the inspiration of a particular pontiff, presumably Pope St. Gregory VII, under whom the Gregorian Reform struck out against clerical concubinage.

You can’t have it both ways:

1. The prophecy is true but Mary is historically inaccurate and counter to what most of the posts on this site state “that married priest lived in continence even in the early church” but she's right in wanting the priests not to have carnal marriage or perhaps 2. Mary is historically right and God just changed his mind several hundred years later as she states in the prophecy. Both are doubtful.

Finally, Mary is of few words. She may show children in Fatima hell but I don’t think she is big on giving every detail play by play.

Francis & Benedict on Same Side of Celibacy Debate, “They are both willing to entertain limited exceptions": John Allen, Jr.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-benedict-wants-his-name-removed-from-book-about-priestly-celibacy/2020/01/14/1d5ffe44-36dc-11ea-a1ff-c48c1d59a4a1_story.html (14 Jan. 2020)

Excerpt: 

John L. Allen Jr., editor of the Catholic news site Crux and a biographer of Benedict, said Tuesday that despite the fracas, Benedict and Francis were on the same side of the celibacy debate.  

“They are both willing to entertain limited exceptions,” said Allen, noting that Benedict allowed married Anglican converts to become Catholic priests

Holy See: "Francis turned over his document to Holy See for translation on Dec. 27 [4th anniversary of this blog], before 'From the Depths of Our Heart' came out. They said Francis’s text did not undergo any changes since then."

Source: https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2020/02/popes-amazon-document-due-wednesday-amid-married-priest-row/ (8 Feb. 2020)

Excerpt:

Vatican officials sought to defuse that idea Friday, saying Francis had turned over his document to the Holy See for translation on Dec. 27, before From the Depths of Our Heart came out. They said Francis’s text did not undergo any changes since then.

Amazon bishops know their region and priest needs better than us: Brian Holdsworth

https://youtu.be/6z2G_q-n_7M (7 Feb. 2020)

Refuting comment of "Let Latins Be Latins & East Be East"

My comment:

Dr. K., your article, while well written, relies too heavily on Fr. Selin's assumptions and data. This in turn leads you to at least one contested conclusion concerning 'mandated' continence. It would be stronger to hold to Brumley's position over Selin's in the final analysis. Let me explain.

S wrote: "In the fourth century the first conciliar legislation concerning a consistent practice of clerical continence and celibacy appears in the Latin Church."

Given this, the problem is three-fold: (1) There is no clear mandate for compulsory continence prior to the 4th Century. Celibacy and continence indeed go back to the time of the Twelve Apostles, as is noted, but 'mandatory' celibacy and 'mandatory' continence does not go to the Twelve. It is not sufficient furthermore to hold that the Church was coming out of persecution and as such could not regulate continence in eccleisial documents (or even the Fathers before the 4th C) b/c ecclesial documents do in fact exist and they do not regulate clerical conjugal relations before the 4th Century. (2) Selin, Stickler, Sarah, others, and now you cite the local Council of Elvira in AD 305 as the earliest evidence for mandated continence, but none of these revered scholars can point to any written universal evidence before this LOCAL council. Even the UNIVERSAL Council of Nicea in 325 did not teach on mandated continence but rather taught that (married) priests once ordained cannot marry. Elvira was a local council for that region, along with Carthage, but they were not councils of the universal holy Catholic Church. The Elvira Synod had the same magisterial authority as does the Amazon Synod. (3) By Fr. Selin's own admission, no evidence exists between the time of the Apostles and AD 305. Crickets. The silence on 'mandated' celibacy and 'mandated' continence is defeaning. Anytime someone cites Elvira it is shooting oneself in the foot bc it declares that no evidence for 'mandated' universal continence existed before the 4th C.

This leads your argument to conclude the ecclesial positivist position of "Let the East be the East, and "Latins be Latins." It-may-be-true-for-you-but-not-true-for-me-relativism concerning a matter that is <<<ahem>>> "more than mere discipline." The universal Church cannot be relativist on "more than mere discipline" or doctrine. East and West must be united on matters "more than mere discipline." We can change discipline, yadda, yadda, yadda... A forteriori, then, if we take this theogical relativism at face value, let's let the Latin West be the Latin West for the sake of conversation: If you want the Latins to be Latins, then Selin's statement is actually a case for the 'obligatory' character of continence appearing only in the 4th Century for the Latins to be Latins. That is the tradition of the Latins! Mandated celibacy started in the 4th Century and thus does not preclude legitimately regulating mandated continence discipline on clerics today.

Brumley's position is better to take than Selin's. B admits that celibacy is the 'norm' in the Latin rite but acknowledges that exceptions exist on a case by case basis. Dispensations of married men in the Latin rite priesthood is what Pius XII did BEFORE Vatican II, and Paul VI, JP2, and B16 after Pius. Pius's dispensation, JP2 Pastoral Provision and B16's Ordinariate priests were not expected to be continent. The Church has authority to dispense from celibacy and (thereby dispense from) continence as is the case of Latin permanent deacons. (Dr. Peter's need not be mentioned here at this time, since the Church has the authority to explicitly declare dispensation from continence.) Exceptions to the celibacy norm does not mean abolishing the norm.

The Code of 1983 says that the salvation of souls is the supreme law of the Church, so if having married Latin priests will save many souls from Hell, then do it, but if it will send souls to Hell then don't do it. But the final analysis is that the Church can regulate as needed. The Church taketh away, but the Church also giveth.

Otherwise, great article. All the best! I'm glad to see a Thomist writing about this issue. JMJ

Father & Son Moment During Ordination Rite: Photo From Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter

Source of photo from Facebook page for Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/07/picture-of-the-day-or-maybe-of-the-year/ (5 Feb. 2020)


But here is the excerpt from Deacon Greg Kendra's blog with Deacon Greg's commentary:

From the Facebook page for the Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter:

Congratulations to Deacon Patrick Allen from Charleston who was ordained to the transitional diaconate yesterday. His young son decided to share in the experience with him!

Congratulations and welcome, deacon!  Ad multos annos!

UPDATE: A few people have been puzzled by the fact that this man is being ordained a transitional deacon.  How can he be married and have a child?, they ask.

He is part of the Anglican Ordinariate: a married former Anglican (or, more likely, Episcopalian) priest who converted and has received permission for ordination to the Catholic priesthood.   As the ordinariate explains it:

Anglican clergy seeking to be ordained as Catholic priests must first complete an extensive process that includes background checks; an endorsement by the local Ordinary; approval by the head of the Ordinariate and by the Vatican; completion of an approved Ordinariate formation program; and an examination. Celibacy is the norm for the clergy. Permission has been given on a case-by-case basis by the Pope for former Anglican priests who are married to be ordained Catholic priests for the Ordinariate. If widowed, they may not remarry.

JP2's Pastoral Provision & B16's Ordinariate "did not abolish celibacy": John Allen

https://youtu.be/M7ocaRmKYs8 (4 Feb. 2020) @ 20:00.

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